Boundary Waters Quetico Forum :: Group Forum: Scouters :: Hiking - Philmont Scout Camp - Cimmaron NM
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rdricker |
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Corsair |
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billconner |
I wonder if BSA will give these troops first chance for next year? |
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WindChill |
* We have monthly training sessions starting in Jan or Feb. We work on skills, and team building. Especially work on orienting a map - the ranger will make the Scouts do this before they hit the trail. * Put a lot of stress on lowering pack weight. Depending on the size of the crew, you will add 15-20lbs of crew gear, food and water to whatever you bring for personal gear. * As an advisor, the best $10 I spent prepping was the Baltimore Area Council - Philmont Advisors Guide (http://www.bacphilmont.org/pag.html) * When you get to base camp - stay flexible and go with the flow. The ranger has a process for getting through everything. Fighting him/her wont get you anywhere. The process includes 24hrs in base camp to help acclimate so you wont get to the trailhead much before 24hrs regardless. * When it comes time to choose an itinerary - help the Scouts make their choice. When I have some "tough guys" that want to really crank out the miles, I remind them that Philmont is about Scouting history and program activities. They can hike in the mountains someplace else for a whole lot less money. |
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rdricker |
billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits? Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has. |
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rdricker |
* First, on trek selection. a) Mileage means little. Their level ratings mean more. A 75 mile trek that is Rugged and a 75 mile trek that is Super Strenuous are very different. We did a SS and spent our days ridge hopping and doing Baldy without a down day (we hiked full packs over baldy ridgeline). b) The country is beautiful, but emphasize programming. Philmont is all about the programming, you can hike miles anywhere. * We used Philmont tents so as not to put the wear on ours or have to transport ours. The new Philmont tents are nice and not too heavy, but are a head/foot entry door. They are not a right/left entry door. It's wasn't a big deal, but might matter to some. * A 7 day trek is more doable for younger people. We found that the adults didn't start feeling comfortable physically on the Trek until day 4 or 5....and a 7 day Trek is about over by then. * Do what you can to acclimate. I am assuming that you chose a 7 day trek to limit the adult time off from work? Altitude acclimation is critical. The more time that you can spend at 6,000'+ before your trek starts the better. Nearly every crew that I know that flew out and started their trek the next day, had a Scout go off trail with altitude sickness. One Crew even had to send one home. Be familiar with the signs so you can recognize it....headaches, nausea, etc. Philmont is good with dealing with this but be aware of it. We did acclimation, but for 3 days counting our Philmont arrival and still have one have to go off trail for 3 days (We never went under 9,300 feet for three days when it happened). * Get the boys used to getting up early and hitting the trail early. It makes a difference when you are getting into a camp for activities early or late. Have fun...It was a blast and I hope to go back again! |
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Jackfish |
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WindChill |
My understanding, from multiple sources, is that crews are scheduled to be in base camp approximately 24 hours regardless what time you arrive. We have always arrived on the train (from the east) on our arrival day. We grab lunch at "fast food row" and get to base around 1pm. We always depart for the trail approximately the same time the next day - plenty of time to get everything done. Before you hit the trail, phone to make a reservation for the villa tour when you return. We have an afternoon train so we schedule it for the morning that we depart. After the villa tour we go to town for lunch - St James hotel has some good lunches. There is a little diner up on the corner, dont recall the name - it is next door to the laundry mat and gas station. They also have good food. |
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rdricker |
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WindChill |
JimmyJustice: "For those who took Amtrak, what station did you arrive/depart from ? Raton?" Yes. For the east-bound train - the shuttle leaves welcome center at 2pm as I recall even though the train isn't until 5pm. They will stop at the grocery store so you can get food (PB sandwich fixin's were tasty). There is nothing at the train station and really nothing to eat within walking distance. We have always heard that you can call the pizza place in Trinidad (the next stop east of Raton) and they will deliver to the train when it arrives. |
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mirth |
You'll be the envy of anybody else waiting for the train, and if they're lucky Mr C's will have leftovers they can buy on the spot. That's what happened when we catered, another small unit was able to get in on the extras he made for our group. They'll also do chicken if you have people that don't eat red meat. |
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billconner |
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rdricker |
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billconner |
rdricker: "I know a Ranger at Philmont that was sent up to Northern Tier to act as an Interpreter. Philmont send almost 50 of them up there to accommodate additional Treks. I'm actually surprised that BWCA could accommodate them." What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits? I just looked and can only say there are 43 entry points with permits available today today and 52 on July 5, near last day they could enter before philmont reopens. And only a few baysvwith no moose lake permits in next month and bsa may already have grabbed a lot. |
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rdricker |
billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits? Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has. |
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rdricker |
billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits? Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has. |
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rdricker |
billconner: What your guess - 3 treks each before return to Philmont - 150 permits? Sounds about right. I'm so used to Quetico, I forget how many permits BWCA has. Good news from Philmont...it's almost 100% contained! Ute Park Fire Update: June 12, 2018 at 11:00 a.m. Fire Update: The Ute Park Fire is currently 36,740 acres (26,387 acres on Philmont) and 92% contained. There are currently 244 personnel including 4 crews, 2 helicopters, 8 engines, and 4 water tenders working this fire. |
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mirth |
It seemed like Cypher's was spared, I really hope so. It still holds the fondest memories I have of our trek. Now, off to get the latest fire map and try to overlay.... |
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rdricker |
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rdricker |
Fire Update: The Ute Park Fire is currently 36,6644 acres and 25% contained. There are currently 598 personnel including 15 crews, 8 helicopters, 29 engines, 5 bulldozers, 9 water tenders on scene. We can confidently confirm that unfortunately all Dean Cow structures were lost and miraculously, Harlan only lost one outbuilding. Our primary focus remains the safety of our team and the management of the fire. We appreciate your patience as we work through this rapidly changing situation. |
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mirth |
PIO Map |
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mirth |
If you're taking the amtrak, I have two suggestions specific to that method of transportation - 1) Arrive to the area 1 day prior to your Philmont arrival date. Plan some other activity for this day and then arrange private shuttle to Philmont. We ran into a Venturing crew on our same train, their trek started the day after us & they were planning on going whitewater rafting the day before they were slated to arrive @ PSR. At the time I thought they were just doing an extra little tour but afterwards their reasoning was crystal clear, based on my crew's experience - By the time the Amtrak arrives in Raton, the bus gets you, takes you to fast food for lunch, then gets you to PSR, you're left with precious few hours in the afternoon to get all your outfitting things done before everything closes at 5PM. Our crew was supposed to be on one of the first buses out the next day to the turnaround, and we missed it because we weren't ready to go. Ultimately we were put on the last bus out for the day and arrived at the turnaround in the middle of a thunderstorm and spent the next hour in lightning position. It was nightfall when we made our first camp. Had we been at base camp earlier in the day we wouldn't have encountered the time crunch, and therefore would have made our initially planned shuttle to the backcountry. 2) There's a guy that will cater a full t-bone, baked potato, green bean, roll, salad, brownie, and lemonade dinner at the station while you wait for the (typically late) train. It beats foraging around town and keeps your group closer to the station. |
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WindChill |
rdricker: That's a really good one. If you take your time getting out of camp in the morning you'll miss programs. Also - on programs. You can often do program at "pass through" camps. Once you get your itinerary, check the map to see what camps you'll pass through each day, and see what programs those camps offer. |
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Tman |
The "extreme" high fire danger throughout northern New Mexico, the new Morris Creek fire in the south are of Philmont, and closure of public land access surrounding Philmont were the reasons cited. It is extremely disappointing to the thousands that had treks planned this summer but looks like a sound decision to keep everyone safe. |
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mirth |
Most staff camps will have potable water at them. |
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JimmyJustice |
Thank you for the info. Arriving early seems to be a regular theme. Our crew size/compliment is changing so I agreed to take over as the Lead Advisor for our crew. The gentlemen who was in charge has not yet provided passwords/signed me up for the Camping Gateway so still a bit confused and don't have full access to the Philmont website. A question nobody, including Philmont, has been able to answer yet (waiting on a reply email from Philmont) is what do the dates mean? Our trek is from August 11-18. So, what do those dates mean? Are they the dates we are expected to arrive/leave or do they mean those are the first/last days in base camp or are they the dates the trek starts? Do you know? Thanks. |
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JimmyJustice |
Much appreciated. JJ |
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CrookedPaddler1 |
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JimmyJustice |
CrookedPaddler1: "I have been down to Philmont twice, in the 1980's. Awesome experience, great facilities, I would try and follow their recommendations for trip planning as best as you can. Also, see if there is a Philmont Advisors course near you this spring. Philmont Advisor Workshop " CP1 I did take the course when they offered in St. Paul late last year. Very helpful. They definitely have their own way of doing things...pitching tents, hanging tarps etc. It takes some energy not to ignore them and do it "my way". I presume their way is (for this trip) the best way. |
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JimmyJustice |
Good advice Windchill...I will try to remember that... :) |
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rdricker |
Get with whoever registered the Crew...They will most likely be the ones that are getting all the information from Philmont. You can notify Philmont, of the change to you, but no guarantee that something won't miss you. An Itinerary selection notice should arrive sometime in March of your trek year. Make sure that you log in and get ready. The selection is now first come first serve online. Log in as soon as you can after it opens and make your selections (I think it's top 5 now). You will know immediately after submission which choice you got. Note again, for the last few years it has not been random. The first ones in get their first choice! Your Crew number will start with a 3 digit number like 811. Translated that means you have a Aug 11 arrival. You will arrive on August 11, check in and outfit. Make sure you are there by noon at the latest that day (earlier is better). Anything you don't complete will have to be done the next day and will delay your departure to the trail. You will spend the first night in a tent at base camp and then depart on a shuttle bus the next day for your trailhead. It sounds like you have a 7 day trek, so you will come off trail on day 7, check in all equipment, and stay the night of day 7 at base camp, departing the morning of Day 8. So you will arrive at Philmont the morning of August 11 and depart the morning of August 18. |
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mirth |
I've already been vocal to the lead advisor about departing a day early in 2019 & doing a pre-trek activity the day before we're supposed to arrive at base camp. One other tip that I'll echo is make sure you have good raingear and some kind of warm layer. Later in the summer is monsoon season, where there's bound to be thunderstorms in the vicinity. Our worst night in the backcountry was also about the midpoint of our trek... hard day summitting Big Red, losing the trail, cold rain & graupel while trying to prepare dinner (tip - the Jambalaya shouldn't be prepared "the Philmont way" - it needs to be boiled then simmered), "crunchy dinner," and 38 degree temps. Everyone was cranky, hangry, cold, and tired. Whenever you're at a staff camp make sure to attend the evening program, even if you're there two nights. My absolute favorite of the trek was the Stomp @ Cypher's Mine. |
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JimmyJustice |
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mirth |
Crocs make good camp shoes. Some people like to use ziplocs for all their personal gear. I opted for a compression sack. Make use of the swap boxes. Your crew will be able to ditch excess & unwanted food and pick through other crews' unwanted food. |
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rdricker |
JimmyJustice: "Question regarding water supply and treatment: Philmont will say that they require you to use chemical filtration. We took our filters planning to use them, but after using them only a couple times decided that it just took too long when we could just dip and treat. They use the chlorine tablets there. Most didn't mind them at all, but we did have one kid who thought the water smelled like a swimming pool. Looking back, I'm glad we just went with the tablets. It was easy to just dip and treat when we needed water. Most of the camps have treated water available, although there were a couple of times when we couldn't use it, either because the chemical level was off, or they had to haul it by bucket and it was only for staff. After a couple of days we started carrying enough water for most of the day so that we didn't have to worry about finding water or filling. It meant carrying 3-4 liters per person, but all of the crew deemed it more desirable than stopping to fill. We pretty much evaluated each morning where water would be accessible and carried enough to get to that location. |
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JimmyJustice |
Is there any good reason to bring my gravity bag/filter? I personally am not a huge fan of sterilization pills but if that is the Philmont way. Each Trek will have different types of water supplies. Just wondering if it is worth adding the weight of a gravity bag to my pack? Thanks JJ |
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billconner |
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billconner |
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WindChill |
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mirth |
JimmyJustice: "Mirth August 11 is the day you arrive at base camp. You'll get outfitted, have the opening campfire that night, and head into the backcountry the next day. August 18 looks to be the date you'd depart base camp to return home. Do you know what itinerary your crew is looking to take? Not sure if they've released itineraries for this upcoming season yet, but looking at 2017's is where I based that on. You may want to take the time now to read the Guidebook to Adventure, which they have updated for 2018. There's good info in there that you should know as being lead advisor for your crew. You can access it here |
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billconner |
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Tman |
What a bummer! Let's pray they can keep the fire under control, keep everyone safe, and minimize the impact to Philmont. |
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mirth |
2019 season registration at Philmont started last December. Our troop has two crews going out on 10 day treks end of July. It will be interesting to see the forest a year after. I had heard that Amtrak is being flexible with groups displaced by the fire, haven't heard how things would shake out for groups flying in or doing pre/post tour activities in the area. |
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billconner |
From Philmont site today: "The Ute Park Fire is currently 36,740 acres and 66% contained." Sounds like they have turned the corner. |
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mirth |
This was a troop contingent and not a council thing. |
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Tman |
1. Reschedule to later this season 2. Transfer to 2019, but dates are subject to availability and we could not get the same dates. 3. Full refund. All three other national high adventure bases have been working to transfer/fit in cancelled crews, including Northern Tier. I have also seen promotions from council high adventure bases such as swamp base. Lots of disappointed Scouts and Scouters but I am very glad there have been no injuries or deaths. Keeping my fingers crossed that the damage hasn't been too severe. |
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mirth |
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JJ47 |
I feel for the scouts who will age out before 2019. |
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Tman |
JJ47: I feel for the scouts who will age out before 2019." Agreed but there are ways to make it work. Register the Scout as an adult. He will have to participate as an adult for YPT purposes (tent separately from youth, etc.) but can otherwise participate as a youth. We have done this in the past for Scouts in our crews and it has worked fine. One year that Scout actually filled the official role of 2nd adult/advisor as one of the adults had to drop out. |
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Cricket67 |
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